Karaoke Forums

OK, first off, I am refering to KJs/DJs that uses hard drive based systems to do thier shows and rip at a 1:1 ratio.  Not the proplr who buy 1 disc, and then put it on 2 or more systems, or the people that download thier tracks and never bought anything.

That being said....

Was at my once a moth gig, and noticed he got one of thoes internet based jukeboxes.  He hasn't gotten the DSL hooked up yet as he just got it, but it is a nice little unit with access to thousands of songs.

So, is that not in a way format shifting?  And how do they get lisenced for it?  Seems to me, that if it came to court for a KJ using his PC, the internet jukeboxes, are his/her out.

there's one at our place, too.  i'm not sure of the licensing, but i know my owner and he's not going to do ANYTHING illegal.  (he's squeekier than a window in a house fulll of OCD patients!)
anyway, it costs $1 for two songs if they are in the jukebox database, but if you get the song from the online database it costs .75 each.  concept is great because i can play just about anything, but the costs is a bit much for me....especially since i have my DJ system to play those songs if i really want to.

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All work and no play make Homer something something

If the site is legal, and the owner is paying for the downloads and his ASCAP, BMI or SOCAN as it applies, then there is no problem.  If one of these things are not done or the site legal, then it is illegal.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I understand, if it is legit and all lisencing is paid, there is nothing wrong with it.  But that is not what I am trying to refer to.

Isn't Internet JukeBoxes format shifitng for COMERCIAL use (not private)?  ANd dosent that open the door for all us KJs/Djs that use Cavs/Pcs

The internet jukeboxes are completely licensed for that intended use, only 1 or 2 manufacturers actually make them.  Our bar just got one as well & the licensing is included in the contract & the pay per play is part of the licensing fee as well & percentage gets kicked back to the publishing house.  
Our bar also are (as far as I know) current in the BMI/ASCAP/etc..as well.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Only thing here is the record companies have authorized the songs that are made available for digital download for commercial environments.  Kind of like ITunes or the other truly legal download sites for home use.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Just happened to read in the SoundChoice message Boards that it looks like SC is in the process of coming out with their own computer that we would be able to purchase IF we wanted to play SoundChoice digitally.

Wouldn't that be something.  Us having decide which company we wanted to play digitally.  Not having a choice of versions unless you buy that particular companies "machine."

Read in another forum, (photography) that architect's are trying to get a law passed that you can't take pictures if "their" building is in the background for fear that "someone" will try and copy their building.

In addition, those of you who like playing online war games such as Call of Duty? Or flight sims? Well now the airplane manufactures that are still in business, are charging the gaming companies for using images of planes that fall under their companies manufacturing.

Does anybody see how ridiculous things are getting?

Kelly

Beretta Firearms charged GM quite a sum for GM to use the name Beretta for one of their vehicles.  That is what copyright is all about.  I bet if any of you had a copyright on something, that you would be quite ticked if others were using it, without your permission or being paid for the use thereof.  Especially if big dollars were involved.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

If you buy a cdg, change it to a formatt that you can use at one venue, and one venue only......you have paid for one use......most people have finally come to this conclusion...........of course, the courts may decide otherwise........besides, who gives permission for anyone to use a cdg to make money.........everybody draws the line where they feel comfortable.....they are sold to you for personal, non-commercial use.......go ahead......throw the first stone.........

The thing is even Soundchoice says your not to play their discs for commercial use.  So how is a KJ even legally supposed to play a disc let alone use it digitally?  And do they really think there is enough non- KJ's out there to make them a livin'?

The general public doesn't spend near the money that a KJ does.

So what do we do when everyone starts "copyrighting" their own names?  Do we start giving our kids numbers instead of names?

Kelly

I mentioned it before.   somewhere.   You technically need written permission from SC or anyone else to use their discs in public performance.   Now that might have a money figure attached to it, also.   Want to ask them and find out?   I don't.    LMAO

If you make money from the SC disc without written permission and whatever else they require.   You sir/madame are absolutely illegal.     Read the fine print on the disc.   It says must have permission.

It says   "Produced at Sound Choice Recording Studios Charlotte, NC.    These are professional re-creations and not recordings by the original artist.    

WARNING:   This material is protected by Federal Copyright laws.   Unauthorized duplication, [highlight=crimson]public performance,[/highlight] or broadcast is a [highlight=crimson]violation[/highlight] of applicable laws.  

BMI/ASCAP don't cover their permission part of the deal.   They cover the publishing company's deal to use the song.


SHOW ME YOUR WRITTEN PERMISSION SLIP from ANYONE TO PLAY [highlight=crimson]ONE[/highlight] SONG IN PUBLIC.  :shock:

You may be illegal if....

So to all of the goody two shoes that are worried about format shifting and illegal hard drives and everything else.      

[font=Comic Sans MS][highlight=crimson]NOBODY here is legal.   NOBODY[/highlight][/font]  :O  :O  LMAO  :no:

Hmmmmmmmmmm does that now mean that SWEET GEORGIA BROWN will be BACK IN VOGUE?????  LMAO  LMAO

How bout RENEWED DEMAND for PIONEER, MEGADISC, SUNFLY, NTO, NUTECH or even PLAYBOY LASERS???????  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Lets hear it for all those MANUAL LOADING SYSTEMS out there!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

It's not just Sound Choice..... It's every disc company.   You, as a professional using the discs to make money, are illegal.    If you play them at home for no money you are legal.


You bought them with the intended use of "home" only.    That's what you paid for.   To use them for your private use.   Not public performance for money.  

  [font=Comic Sans MS][highlight=crimson]EVERYONE HERE IS ILLEGAL...[/highlight][/font]  :shock:


Show me your permission.....from any company.      Just one.   I'll wait....

Format doesn't matter.  :no:    It's where and how you are using the music.

Guess they better start rounding us all up and send us to the gallows!! What it gets right down to is the whole frickin' industry is simply a big ol mess!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I feel that I can now bring out some of the information that I picked up from the guys at Cavs and Soundchoice when I contacted them last week regarding legalities.

I asked Chris at Sound Choice a direct question regarding running a show with all of my original CDG's on a laptop. He said that they unofficially have no problem with a KJ that protects their investment by backing up to a hard drive (this was news to me) He stated that they are not after the KJ who has the originals...unless of course the KJ is running multiple rigs without having originals for each system. He did say however that format shifting is illegal but the laws would probably not go after the KJ's that have the originals and can prove it.

When I spoke to Cavs it was a completely different conversation....When I told the guy that I had a large CDG Collection and wanted to potentially load them to a Cavs system he said...loading them to our system or any HD system is the least of your worries....Your big worry is that your CDG investment is like a brick of swiss cheese, and that a large percentage of those songs were never legal to begin with!!!  :O He asked me what percentage of my discs were from the same mfg...I told him about 70 percent SC and he just sorta laughed and said ....In the next 90 to 120 days you will know exactly where you stand with regard to what's legal and what is not. He said 2007 will prove to be a very interesting year for the karaoke industry.

He did say that the manufacturers of the CDG's will be the hardest hit from a legal standpoint.

So I can say that it should be very interesting to watch and see what happens. I believe that there will be some major changes coming for sure.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Frankly if I have to go back to a CDG based show I will probably opt to pull out of the KJ market altogether.

That won't be hard for me to do as I have been trying to eliminate bars from my lineup anyway.  Bars here just don't pay enough to make it worthwhile lugging the all that extra gear around.....at least for me it's not worth it.

I have way too much inventory (well over 1100 cdgs) to be carrying them around to my shows. It was bad enough when I had 350...I cant imagine triple that!
Call me crazy or lazy but I just can't imagine going back to discs, and like Knightshow I'll be damned if I will let someone dictate to me how I play my music once I have made the legal investment.

If they start cracking down in this area and the price to perform goes back up to where it was say 8-10 years ago I might reconsider it. That will take quite some time before that happens.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

In another thread, in the last week, I related a conversation I had with Chris at Sound Choice regarding the right of KJ to use CDG's at shows.  I also asked about the wording on their discs regarding prohibition against public performances.

In short, he said KJ's have nothing to be concerned about and the warning on the label is intended to prevent the manu's material from being used in another recording for profit or to be used as background music in, for example, commercials.

In another thread Timberlea sarcastically questioned why I would recommend avoiding SC when it's their quality that KJ's seek.   There have been plenty of comments of late on this forum regarding alternative sources for karaoke tracks.  

As to Timberlea's concerns regarding backups.  I have a back up of what its on my hard drive. And, at this point, everything I have is for home use.  So, I'm not double or triple rigging.  That's what I want just to protect my hobby.  I would think professionals would want, at least, as much.  And read Jamkaroke's thread about his new year's nightmare.  

And Flipper could you clarify more what the essence of your discussion with CAVS was?  Was CAVS implying all manu's or just SC is facing a problem?  What do you think the problem is?  What does "like a brick of cheese" mean?   And will whatever is impending shut down karaoke manufacturers?

Not to speak on behalf of CAVS, but it sounds to me like what they were saying is that the disc companies, at least in many cases, don't have the permission of the copyright holders to produce a CDG version of the songs they're putting out, and that the copyright holders are in the process of doing something about it.

On the other hand, it's not like this issue hasn't come up before, so I don't see why 2007 would be a particularly unusual year in that respect, so maybe I've got it wrong.

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

They are authorized in commercial venues only if the venue has paid their licensing fees.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Tom pretty much has it right...However I do sense a definate move this year to define legality issues.

The swiss cheese comment was from the Cavs guy and he meant to give me a visual of my CDG collection.....its full of alot of holes as to legality. I think he was trying to tell me that there will be question of legality on many of the songs as to wether I can legally use them due to copyright issues with the mfg's. The legality on these will not be determined by the format I use them in. It will be determined whether the songs can be used at all.  Thats the way I took it.

He said many manufacturers have gone by the wayside and it's not just piracy that has done it. Many of them got caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak. He was not singling out SC but rather implying that if that is the makeup of the majority of my selection I may have some problems ahead. I think he found it humourus that I was questioning the legality of their download and preload operation when in reality they are quite legal, yet I was not aware that my so called legal CDG collection may not be as legal as I think it is.


Is this guy wrong?....maybe....maybe not. I doubt seriously if The Manufacturers will give us a straight forward answer on this right now....or ever for that matter.

This is gonna be a wait and see issue....I was told that in about 90-120 days it will be quite clear.....you know how that goes, it could be a year or two. Fact is that there will be a few sacraficial lambs out there that will be slaughtered to test if their efforts will stand up in a court of law.

Depending on the outcome I will weigh the issues at hand and see wether I have to make duplicate purchases on songs that I have already paid for once and sometimes twice to remain legal. That and wether I can continue with an all digital show will determine if I continue in the karaoke side of business or not. We'll see

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott