Karaoke Forums

I have a slight dilemna that I would like some advice with. I have been doing a regular Firday Karaoke gig for over two years now. The bar owner asked me if I would be willing to do another night of Karaoke on Tuesday's along with Friday's and politely turned her down for numerous reasons. Well this week I found out that she did hire a someone to come in and do Tuesday's Nights Karaoke. Here is the delimena. Both her and her ex-husband (who she is still good friends with) both claim to have over 100,000 Karoake tracks and they just started in the business a few years ago. Not I'm not sure, and I could possibly be wrong, but I don't think she is using legally owned Karaoke tracks. If she isn't, I'm not sure I want to be aquainted with a bar that is using an illegal Karaoke Host when I have worked the last two years to purchase my 5,100 tracks respectively. What are your thoughts on this please?

This is probably not a battle you can win. The owners probably won't fire the Tuesday couple because they probably don't care that their new hosts are pirates. If I were you, I'd just keep doing your Saturday and if singers say "well, they have that song on Tuesday," I'd mention that you pay for your songs, while many KJs and DJs pirate everything.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I'd keep your gig, ultimately it is between the bar and that KJ. If it's an otherwise good gig, I wouldn't let the fact that they hired someone you suspect of being a pirate affect you staying in a well paying gig. As long as they continue to treat you right why let it bother you? Now when your singers ask about the difference in tracks, I'd be very careful how you respond if you do want to keep your gig. Even something as simple as saying a non accusatory line like Jeff suggests could get easily twisted into something that blows up into a major battle. If word gets back to the other KJ that you've accused them of being pirates, whether you actually did or not, whether they are or not, its gonna get ugly fast.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Thanks Jeff - I like that advice because I know that's what is coming - "The Tuesday Night Host has everything" Blah Blah Blah!!!!

Had a similar situation, I did (and still do a sunday night) and the new landlady bought in host with a similiar system to the one you describe on a frida. If you've been in the venue as long as you say, then chances are you already have the songs you customers want to sing, and (this is the kicker) the versions they are used to and love.

The customers like the way I run the show, and sadly for the landlady her friday nights are quiet and going through several changes including quiz nights.

Smile, keep you head up and be friendly to the customers: people hate change... chances are you're always be the prefered host, or bring in two different crowds.

_________________
'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

We had that situation. In our case, however, we KNEW they weren't all legal tracks because the person had tried to get us to joing their file sharing site at one time. So we weren't in the awkward situation of not wanting to falsely accuse someone. We stayed on anyway as that was all we had at the time but it did make it difficult as far as far as trying to negotiate a better rate when we had someone waiting in the wings willing to grab our weekend night for tips.

The owner was aware of the legal issue but chose to do nothing. We have someone in our area who was very active with the that particular issue. He sent letters to every venue that advertised karaoke telling them how to tell if they had a legal host. For some reason that carried weight with our owner and he asked the fellow to show his discs or hit the road. He hit the road.

I'm not suggesting you have to get involved with reporting etc. But there is now a lot of educational info out there that you could photocopy and present to the owner just as an FYI without directly accusing anyone. It may or may not have any effect.

In the meantime, we countered the number of songs things with just keeping a request list and telling people that we would order a song they wanted if we didn't have it. Sometimes we couldn't and would explain the song was no longer available or we would have to order a $100 set just to get that one song but for the most part it worked. You can stress legal library without pointing fingers and you can say "We may not have all of the songs but we will have the ones you want to sing."

Then if the singer says that they have something you don't, write it down, and compile a custom disc from selectatrack and tell them you will have it soon.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

This part of me say's you may want to advise the owner that they could be held liable for hiring a KJ who is using pirated tracks if they ever get investigated.
I wouldn't suggest the KJ they hired is ILLEGAL but at least let the owner know that they should ASK the question to the KJ.

Now the other part is this ... I don't pretend to be completely PERFECT in this world and I tend not to get involved in SNITCHING on someone unless it directly affects your gig.

I have a long list of songs I would like to have, which are not sold anymore. That is the real trouble when you are competing with pirates -- there is no legal way to buy some songs since the discs are no longer available.

I keep my eye on Craigslist waiting for older KJs to retire and sell their stuff. I figure one day I will have a chance to buy a huge collection from someone like Lonman who has been in business since the dawn of karaoke.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Just hang tight - may not be the case where you are, but Tuesday nights are a bear here...many start Tuesdays and just fade away.

The problem I can see is if SC or some other manu decides to visit the club on Tuesdays and sees illegal tracks you might get drug into the problem as well. The manu might see their stuff but name you, the club and the other guys as well. You might mention that there are lawsuits flying around that not only name the kj's but the clubs as well and it might be a good idea to ask all kj's to show their manu's discs for the songs that they play. Then of course they might not really give a hoot and just blow it all off.


Not sure where you are but they are hitting the east coast and now CA.

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Well, unlike most of the responses here, I would definitely go to the owner and let them know that the likelihood of anyone having 100,000 legally purchased songs is either slim or next to none. Then I would educate them on illegal karaoke and how he's putting his business and reputation on the line by hiring a pirate. It may not do any good but it can't hurt. Once an owner is informed that he can be seriously fined slaped with a lawsuit, as well as lose his business should make him stand up and take notice.

Don't keep quiet. Speak out. Screw the other KJ. Obviously, they could give a rat's a... about you. Tell the owner without actually acusing but say, there is a good chance...bla, bla. Sorry, but I have a mouth.

What I found out that worked for us is to seperate the confusion. I would ask the venue to register with SC Safe Harbor Program fo Venues becuase I register for a KJ. When they read about piracy information they know you are doing your best to keep them out of the attornys grasp and are looking out for thier business. I would offer to be there to help them fill out the forms and if the other karaoke company wants to sign up I would be happy to do that to or ask the owners if they would like the other company to sign up also...

_________________
[img]<img%20src="http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j288/miller2348/myspace/images/Funny_Pics/images/21.gif"[/img]

CHECK YOUR ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR, STICK AROUND YOU JUST MIGHT HAVE SOME FUN

The bar owner i'm sure doesn't give a crap if the KJ is using bootleg tracks.

You could mention the legal issue, but it's difficult to bring it up without sounding catty.. besides, at the end of the day, it's not the number of songs in your catalog, it's the songs you have that make the difference.

Keep current, and when people ask for tracks you don't have, write 'em down and make an effort to find them.. build a custom disc, or look on eBay for used discs, etc.

That's how I built my library. Load up on cheap discs, too.. like the Sweet Georgia Brown sets and the Music Maestro sets, because having a less than perfect version of a song someone requests is way better than not having the song at all.

I sure has hell wouldn't quit a regular, well paying gig just because they hired a pirate for an alternating night.

Out of curiosity, why didn't you pick up the extra night when they offered it?

That's a biggie for me. Sometimes people ask for songs that they've sang before at other venues, but they are no longer available for purchase. I explain that, but some people just don't get it. Many, many singers just don't understand how and why karaoke songs are made. They think that every song ever recorded can be a karaoke song, just using my "magic karaoke machine".

Some of the ones that were no longer available to us have eventually turned up on Selectatrack. SBI now has "Sink the Bismark" and "Snoopy's Christmas" which were two being requested of us. Also, since they acquired Pocket Songs, that means being able to buy just the song needed instead of the entire disc that might be all dupes but the one requested.

Sound Choice is getting closer to having their catalog back on Custom. That might be a big one for us.

Thank to everyone for your reply! I have read every single one and just say that I have decided to stay on Friday Night and see what happens. I have also decided not to approach the owner until I feel it is absolutely necessary and I will make that determination as the weeks go by and wait to see what kind of feedback I hear.

I will answer one question and that one was I didn't take on the Tuesday Night when asked and the answer to that questions is - That Friday Nights are the busy night and I have regulars who are in the bar every Friday. Every Friday is different though, new people come and go, but the regulars are always there. Asked around about Tuesday Nights and the majority said they would not attend. One night a week is enough for them. So I did not want to go out of my way to drag my equipment in and out for a few bar patrons and have the owner cut the show in a couple of weeks anyway.

Thanks again and if any details emerge - I will share!

Peace, Love & Karaoke!!

You'd be surprised. I work 7 nights in the same place. Have regulars that come in each night - some only come in once a week on a specific night, other nights I get a whole different lot of regulars. Just because your Friday night regs wouldn't come in, doesn't mean you won't get an entirely new crowd of people to follow your show.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

In my mind this is closest to the right thing to do. I would not ignore the problem as some have suggested, the bar and you could get drug into a legal battle. Whether you are legal or not, who wants to go thru that hassle. If you feel uncomfortable educating the owner, put together some info from online, printed out with web sites, stories telling of the settlements that have been going on and what not. Then have a friend mail it to them.

_________________
KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

If you complain you're going to get a bad moniker with the owner who sees you as being protectionist. Unless your run the entertainment of the bar you really don't have much of a say. Do you worry if the Friday night band is selling meth out back? Run your section of the business like it should and your competition can't touch you.

Keep you and your show clean, advertise for the bar's Tuesday night if they ask you do and run a good tight show. I ran Friday's only at my venue while another guy ran Saturday and Tuesday nights. He had the songs I didn't but ran a loose show with a poor rotation. The owner fired him and asked me to find someone new for them. Now I'm training someone to run the Saturday and Tuesday show and keeping things rocking. Our little Sports bar is becoming an area Karaoke destination.

More to a show than songs and many times missing songs are a fixable problem. If you're proactive in getting new stuff then you're setting up long term success. Don't play short term and duck and weave. Make your product better and win.