Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong

Timerlea, forgot about you, yours always a pillar of truth. And he's right some of you aren't taking in the difference between criminal and civil complants.In a criminal complaint. You fill out the complaint form with the US Attoney's office and sooner or later they will check it out. If they come into the bar while a kj is working with a hard drive all they have to do is confiscate it and press charges against both of you.
SC doesn't even have to be there. The US government will prosecute. Fines for willfull copyright infrigement are now: as the law reads: up to $250,000 fine and up to 6 months in jail ( per occurance ). The other way a kj could get sued for damages would be if the bar had to pay fines, lost their liquer license or business licence for 30,60 or how ever long a judge deterimed. And then came after you for those damages. If I was SC or Stellar I would first send a cease and desist letter, If that had no impact I would send a second letter letting the bar know I was filing complaints with 1. US attorney's office 2, State DA's office for criminal charges. 3 & 4 with the state liqueur licensing and business licensing asking to have the business and liqueur license revolked for the wilfull use of contraband on their premises. All things that are possible for copyright violation. Good Thing I'm not the one making the decisions--huh

In a bar or other public venue the police or FBI or RCMP do not need a warrant if the offending CDGs harddrive/computer are in plain sight. Since an indictable (or in the US, a felony) IS being committed, a citizen's arrest can be made and police called. That's why cops like bars so much, they are not private dwelling places, but public places, even if privately owned. Now before anyone spouts off, the offices in a bar are not "public". "Public" here is where the public has access.

I didn't play a cop on TV. I was one.

I talked to a lawyer who is representing BMI, he is my best friends brother in law and a farily smart guy. He doesn't know about our little world of karaoke specifically, but he has heard about it and knew all about the "no copying of digital media" copyright law. He is involved in recouping monies for improper operation of jukebox music. He believes no one is going to go after the kJ or DJ in any of these cases, because he said it would be so much harder than just going after the establishment. Just one guys opinion, but he is involved with copyright infringement cases right now for BMI and jukebox stuff. do with this info what you will.

i think I know what you are saying lonman, but the point i was trying to make is maybe the KJs DJs arent worth going after? hard to find, hard to prove, and a situation that doesn't seem so cut and dry as some seem to think, whatever the laws may say.

Author:	ok What Now [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
you made my point....be afraid....very afraid

Author:	ok What Now [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
jerry have u ever seen any of these people? again i'm not saying they're not out there but the amount of people doing it has to be very, very small compared.... unless it's ike fema, they're all going to the same bar anyway, so no ground covered there... Billy/ I'M GONNA GET YA SUCKER

Author:	jerry12x [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
I know the pub I go to is downloading P2P It shows up on their hosting program. Dont actually think anyone else knows. If I tell them I know what is happening I get bard. Yes its a situation. What would you do...

Author:	ok What Now [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
mind my own business, if we locked up every crook we wouldn't have a government.....hmmmmmmmm, now there's a thought

Author:	ok What Now [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
truth is the contest i just entered was downloading their songs off the net....when i asked him what site he said oh just a site i know of....so who knows... lately i have had half my things stolen from the back of my truck, so someone stealing a song off the net is not high on my list....

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SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong http://karaokescene.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9442	Page 5 of 8

Author:	ok What Now [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
great looking dog u got there

Author:	SwingcatKurt [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
Another over-looked aspect of this is those KJ's who advertise and offer "on-the-spot" recording of people singing at thier Karaoke shows. I know of several who do this. Some do it for free, but most charge 5-10$ a song to record you live at their show/venue. This is directly making money for them with out licenses to copy/reproduce karoke tracs. Anyone come across this out there?

Author:	MC Krusty [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
I'm just glad the government will eventually go after those evil folks who choose to put their media in PC format, but leave our borders wide open for Mohammad and Saheeb to enter our country illegally. Priorities, I guess.

Author:	ok What Now [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
hear hear krusty

Author:	ok What Now [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
is everyone on here as intersted in others breaking the law as in maybe....selling hotdogs without a lic.? as u r in those evil devils stealing songs? i'm sorry but i just can't see ya'lls point...is it wrong? i'm sure it is....but my god ur gov. my gov. steals from us everyday, i don't hear u crying about that.... people honestly think that because people steal so much from a store is why the prices r hgh...hellooooo, prices r high because u will pay those prices....one lady told me that there prices were high because i had no idea how much tollet tissue people used in there bathrooms....soooooo, she had to raise every price in ther whole store to pay for it....yea ok.... tools were stolen from my truck should i now make u pay because someone stole from me? i just don;t get it....

Author:	Kellyoke [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
Phxkj @ Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:55 pm wrote: Timerlea, forgot about you, yours always a pillar of truth. And he's right some of you aren't taking in the difference between criminal and civil complants.In a criminal complaint. You fill out the complaint form with the US Attoney's office and sooner or later they will check it out. If they come into the bar while a kj is working with a hard drive all they have to do is confiscate it and press charges against both of you. SC doesn't even have to be there. The US government will prosecute. Fines for willfull copyright infrigement are now: as the law reads: up to $250,000 fine and up to 6 months in jail ( per occurance ). The other way a kj could get sued for damages would be if the bar had to pay fines, lost their liquer license or business licence for 30,60 or how ever long a judge deterimed. And then came after you for those damages. If I was SC or Stellar I would first send a cease and desist letter, If that had no impact I would send a second letter letting the bar know I was filing complaints with 1. US attorney's office 2, State DA's office for criminal charges. 3 & 4 with the state liqueur licensing and business licensing asking to have the business and liqueur license revolked for the wilfull use of contraband on their premises. All things that are possible for copyright violation. Good Thing I'm not the one making the decisions--huh IF someone comes in to "get your equipment." Make sure 1., they have a warrant and 2. make sure there is law enforcement with them. If they don't have both, tell them to take a hike. Kelly

Author:	timberlea [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
In a bar or other public venue the police or FBI or RCMP do not need a warrant if the offending CDGs harddrive/computer are in plain sight. Since an indictable (or in the US, a felony) IS being committed, a citizen's arrest can be made and police called. That's why cops like bars so much, they are not private dwelling places, but public places, even if privately owned. Now before anyone spouts off, the offices in a bar are not "public". "Public" here is where the public has access. I didn't play a cop on TV. I was one.

Author:	jdmeister [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
timberlea @ Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:41 pm wrote: In a bar or other public venue the police or FBI or RCMP do not need a warrant if the offending CDGs harddrive/computer are in plain sight. Since an indictable (or in the US, a felony) IS being committed, a citizen's arrest can be made and police called. That's why cops like bars so much, they are not private dwelling places, but public places, even if privately owned. Now before anyone spouts off, the offices in a bar are not "public". "Public" here is where the public has access. I didn't play a cop on TV. I was one.

Author:	Tom Eaton [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
The problem with the "plain view" doctrine in that case is that a disc with no label on it, or a computer that runs mp3 files, is not contraband or illegal in itself. Now if law enforcement is present when the disc/file is run and they can see that it's an illegal disc, that would be different. At least that's what I'd argue if I were representing the KJ or venue. I'd further argue that there would be no reason they couldn't go and get a warrant since they could easily scope the place out beforehand, see if any copyright violations took place, and then go to the court and get a warrant to seize the illegal material. Timberlea I know you're in Canada so the search and seizure laws might be different there, so your mileage may vary. The constitutional limits on seizure of materials associated with contraband are not very strict here in the U.S. Statutes like RICO (Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) and similar state statutes often allow law enforcement to seize all materials connected to the contraband. In other words, if you've got one illegal disc, it's not inconceivable that law enforcement could seize all your discs and equipment. And I've heard or read about many horror stories where even the legal materials were not given back after the whole matter was sorted out. So far these statutes have been upheld as against most constitutional objections, at least the last time I read up on any of this stuff.

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Author:	Phxkj [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
Tom, How does that arguement work, when by law ther is no such thing as a legal hard drive for commercial use. virtually all the karaoke music would be illegal?? If you don't use the original disc and you don't have permission granted in writing from both the origianl copyright holder and the maufacturer of the disc that is on your hard drive, in your possesion, your copy on the hard drive is illegal

Author:	hamsamich [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
I talked to a lawyer who is representing BMI, he is my best friends brother in law and a farily smart guy. He doesn't know about our little world of karaoke specifically, but he has heard about it and knew all about the "no copying of digital media" copyright law. He is involved in recouping monies for improper operation of jukebox music. He believes no one is going to go after the kJ or DJ in any of these cases, because he said it would be so much harder than just going after the establishment. Just one guys opinion, but he is involved with copyright infringement cases right now for BMI and jukebox stuff. do with this info what you will.

Author:	knightshow [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
that's exactly what SC and Stellar are targetting... the establishment. And what do you think is going to happen once there's ONE successful seizure at an establishment, and a serious fine levied??? ALL Karaoke will suffer. Disc guys as well as computer folks. Because the owners won't care... all they know is that karaoke is targetted, and they'll want NOTHING to do with that. SC and Stellar are succeeding where piracy never did... the killing of the commercial gigs!

Author:	Lonman [ Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
hamsamich @ Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:01 pm wrote: I talked to a lawyer who is representing BMI, he is my best friends brother in law and a farily smart guy. He doesn't know about our little world of karaoke specifically, but he has heard about it and knew all about the "no copying of digital media" copyright law. He is involved in recouping monies for improper operation of jukebox music. He believes no one is going to go after the kJ or DJ in any of these cases, because he said it would be so much harder than just going after the establishment. Just one guys opinion, but he is involved with copyright infringement cases right now for BMI and jukebox stuff. do with this info what you will. But again, that is just BMI - the publishers. If the bar are paying the publishing fees, they won't be involved. They don't police the copyrights, just whether the bars are paying their fees to the publishers to allow the music to be played.

Author:	hamsamich [ Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
i think I know what you are saying lonman, but the point i was trying to make is maybe the KJs DJs arent worth going after? hard to find, hard to prove, and a situation that doesn't seem so cut and dry as some seem to think, whatever the laws may say.

Author:	Lonman [ Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: SC and Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong
hamsamich @ Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:53 pm wrote: i think I know what you are saying lonman, but the point i was trying to make is maybe the KJs DJs arent worth going after? hard to find, hard to prove, and a situation that doesn't seem so cut and dry as some seem to think, whatever the laws may say. Which is exactly why the publishers quit going after bands, dj's, etc. & making the venues that are having the music pay - because the dj's & bands didn't make enough to warrant going after them. If the venues are paying their proper licensing fees, ASCAP, BMI, etc, could care less about what format is being used, as long as they are getting the money for the artists they represent. WHen these agencies get involved is when the venues aren't paying their fees - and they do need to pay differently for almost everything - tv broadcasts, radio broadcasts, live music, dj, karaoke - these are all different fees. If the club has a dance floor or not - another fee, & the list goes on. Radio stations have to keep a running list of what songs are played, when & how many times & have to pay based per song - it's like a fraction of a cent to a cent per play, but it adds up.