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Murray C
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:43 am |
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Quote: The CD+Graphics file format consists of the audio samples and the data representing the lyric display interleaved throughout the file This seems to be correct as you are in agreement that the data is interleaved on the disk. As 'interleave' means to intersperse the sectors on the disk to guide the storing and recording of data, then this also is in accordance with the 'Red Book' description that states "on the disc, the Subchannel data is interspersed with the audio data." Quote: The data is embedded with and inclusive of the audio samples throughout each file.
This is saying that the 'numerical or other information represented in a form suitable for processing by computer' is 'inserted as an integral part of a surrounding whole' and includes the audio data. This also seems to be quite true of the data on a CD or CDG.
Throughout this forum, people have been looking for some form of legal opinion by someone who is qualified to provide it. I posted the link to the IPJustice advice in order to give them one example of what they had been looking for. I cannot state that their findings are right or wrong as I am not an attorney. But neither am I going to say that they don't know anything of what they are talking about, as you seem so hasty to do, based on your perception that they got a small insignificant technical fact wrong, which, as I pointed out above, seems to be a misconception on your part.
The timing information does not form a whole byte. On a CDG it is contained in only two bits of each 8-bit subchannel data byte and forms two 16-bit streams in the 16 byte subcode data.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:46 pm |
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Is the subcode part of the audio data. No. Does it serve any function in the audio data. No. Is the idea of sub-code excluse to audio data? I don't know, but I kinda doubt it BECAUSE IT'S NECESSARY TO THE FUCNTION OF THE READING MECHANISM and not part of the data. If you rip the audio from the CD and turn it into just audio data, there is no subcode, no timing byte, no graphics information. This leads me to beleive that IPJustice was incorrect that the graphics are part of the audio file.
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Murray C
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:18 pm |
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Quote: exweedfarmer: Is the subcode part of the audio data. No. Does it serve any function in the audio data. No. Did IPJustice say it was. No. Quote: If you rip the audio from the CD and turn it into just audio data, there is no subcode, no timing byte, no graphics information. This leads me to beleive that IPJustice was incorrect that the graphics are part of the audio file.
As I said above, you are basing your opinions on misconception and misunderstanding. Tell me where IPJustice says the graphics are part of the audio file! They in fact say "The CD+Graphics file format consists of the audio samples and the data representing the lyric display interleaved throughout the file"
Nobody is talking about ripping a CDG file down into separate files of audio and graphics components. Even the "Red Book" description says practically the same as IPJustice... ""on the disc, the Subchannel data is interspersed with the audio data. But when the disc is played back, the two streams of data are separated."
Contrary to your understanding IPJustice DID NOT say that the graphics are part of the audio file. They said the audio data and lyric display (in other words, graphic) data were INTERLEAVED (same as interspersed).
For those whose do not know what the "Red Book" is, it is the standard for audio CDs. It is named after one of a set of color-bound books that contain the technical specifications for all CD and CD-ROM formats.
One of the biggest problems on internet forums is the willingness of people to lambast others and respond negatively to comments that they don't understand the true meaning of. THAT is what ticks me off!
END OF ARGUMENT!
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karyoker
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:51 pm |
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Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA
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Why complicate a simple theory? In the 8086 days when the data bus was 2 bytes or 16 bits and you had the a register which was 16 bits and the b register which was 16 bits.if you were working with paint and 24 bit color it was super slow because the parallel transfer had to use 1 and 1/2 registers. Most I/O devices were faster than the cpu arctitecthure When the cpu clock rate in 2000 hit 2 gig and now it is above 3 gig and and the clock rate is multiplied to a 800 fsb.. There is not an I/O device esp cd drive capable of these speeds.Also you have 32 bit cpu registers and the latest board I put in is 64 bit register parallel data bus transfer at at over 3 gigs. And dual core processor nontheless Which means you arnt cycle stealing but cycle doubling..
According to wkii
Code: CD+G
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Compact Disc Graphics logo/trademark
Compact Disc Graphics logo/trademark
A CD+G (also known as CD+Graphics) is a special audio compact disc that contains graphics data in addition to the audio data on the disc. The disc can be played on a regular audio CD player, but when played on a special CD+G player, can output a graphics signal (typically, the CD+G player is hooked up to a television set or a computer monitor); these graphics are almost exclusively used to display lyrics on a television set for karaoke performers to sing along with.
In each sector there are 2352 bytes (24 * 98) of audio content data and 96 bytes of subchannel data.
The 96 bytes of subchannel information in each sector contain four packets of 24 bytes apiece :
1 byte for command, 1 byte for instruction, 2 bytes for parityQ, 16 bytes for data, and 4 bytes parityP.
Each of the 96 subchannel data bytes can be thought of as being divided into 8 bits. Each of these bits corresponds to a separate stream of information. These streams are called "channels", and are labeled starting with the letter P, like so:
Channel P Q R S T U V W
Bit 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
Both the P and Q channels on a regular audio CD are used for timing information. They are used to assist the CD player in tracking the current location on the disc, and to provide the timing information for the time display on the CD player. Note that same space is used for CD-Text as well.
Channel Q is used for control purposes of more sophisticated players. It contains position information the Media Catalog Number (MCN), and International Standard Recording Code (ISRC). The ISRC is used by the media industry, and contains information about the country of origin, the year of publication, owner of the rights, as well as a serial number, and some additional tags:
Data
This track contains Data (rather than audio). Can be used for muting in audio CD Players.
SCMS Flag
Used by the Serial Copy Management System to indicate permission to digitally copy the track.
Four-Channel Audio
The track uses four channel audio. Used very rarely on Compact Discs.
Pre-Emphasis
The audio track was recorded with pre-emphasis. Used very rarely on Compact Discs.
The CD+G format takes advantage of the channels R through W, which are unused in standard audio CD formats. These six bits are used to store graphics information.
In the CD+G system, 16-color (4-bit) graphics are displayed on a raster field which is 300×216 pixels in size.
The following videogame consoles played CD+G format CD's: TurboGrafx CD (a CD-ROM peripheral for the TurboGrafx 16), Turbo Duo, Sega Mega-CD (Sega CD in North America), 3D0, Sega Saturn, Commodore Amiga CD32 and the Atari Jaguar CD (which was an attachment to the Atari Jaguar).
CD+G has had a resurgence of late, and is being used for CDs for karaoke systems, with the graphics used to display song lyrics.
The audio code is transferred thru the data buss in a 24 bit parallel manner and the sub channel is serlialized to an 8 bit counter register. The register is used like in winamp to track the time left or used by the memory cache to store into ram the amount of bytes to which setting you have for your cache.
In the video layout the CD+G system uses 16-color (4-bit) graphics are displayed on a raster field which is 300×216 pixels in size. The bits use the standard digital RGB format. In the graphics screen it is useless to use more than 600X800 resolution. And that is why I can run video thru a snake to the stage monitor.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:48 pm |
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"The CD+Graphics file format consists of the audio samples and the data representing the lyric display interleaved throughout the file"
THE FILE not THE FILES not the data streams, not the CIRC bytes "THE FILE". They said the graphics data was inclusive in the audio file. It is not.
karyoker: Nice bit of research. But, what has it got to do with anything?
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karyoker
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:30 pm |
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Quote: karyoker: Nice bit of research. But, what has it got to do with anything? What does your ego arguments have to do with legal prospects concerning legal arguments about karaoke
You want to argue with me son? I have degrees in EE and 2 minors in computer science
You always want to argue with someone like you have an enemic ego You want to challenge me? I will pin you to the wall son simply because I will enlist the entire eng dept of a local college Bring it on ... Hit me son..,.. Lets get it on...
And if you want to argue legalities give me a business address and will have my family attorney challenge your legal impressions if you want to tell me what is illegal you better have legal counsel on the payroll and be prepared to pay legal counsel Son I have an attorney on the payroll which just deterrmined the outcome of over a millionn dollar estate.. You want to challenge my lil karakoke \business?
I am tired of this fantasy BS come to me bust me Take me to circuit court Tell me Im illegal I will give you an address.. Come bust med. Lets get it on....
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:33 pm |
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karyoker @ Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:30 pm wrote: Quote: karyoker: Nice bit of research. But, what has it got to do with anything? What does your ego arguments have to do with legal prospects concerning legal arguments about karaoke You want to argue with me son? I have degrees in EE and 2 minors in computer science You always want to argue with someone like you have an enemic ego You want to challenge me? I will pin you to the wall son simply because I will enlist the entire eng dept of a local college Bring it on ... Hit me son..,.. Lets get it on... And if you want to argue legalities give me a business address and will have my family attorney challenge your legal impressions if you want to tell me what is illegal you better have legal counsel on the payroll and be prepared to pay legal counsel Son I have an attorney on the payroll which just deterrmined the outcome of over a millionn dollar estate.. You want to challenge my lil karakoke \business? I am tired of this fantasy BS come to me bust me Take me to circuit court Tell me Im illegal I will give you an address.. Come bust med. Lets get it on.... what are you talking about? I didn't challenge you to a duel. I asked you why you posted what you posted. The topic was " Is the CDG graphic information part of an audio file?" as it said in IPJustice opinion. Maybe your references to early PC bus widths, and packet interpretation in CDG infromation was just beyond the scope of my understanding in how it related to the topic. I do not know what you are mad about. Feel free to explain what I missed or feel free just to be mad if it makes you happy.
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Lonman
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:45 am |
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exweedfarmer @ Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:33 pm wrote: The topic was " Is the CDG graphic information part of an audio file?
Actually the topic of this particular thread was "SC & Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong" :D _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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karyoker
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:58 am |
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Quote: Actually the topic of this particular thread was "SC & Stellars Tactics are soooo wrong" Very Happy
Exactly And I apologize for for rantings but at this point in time all this old mans wants to do is wander out into the middle of main st throw up his arms and scream WHAT IN GODS NAME HAVE YOU IDIOTS DONE TO MY COUNTRY? laws Laws Laws I want my freedoms and country back Let my children speak and let my children sing!!!!
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Murray C
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:19 am |
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You are sooo right Karyoker on so many points! The topic is about SC and Stellar's tactics... and that is precisely why I posted the link to IPJustice's findings.... to show a professional legal opinion based on case law, so that the KJ's here can have some basis to rest a bit easier.
The problem was that exweedfarmer, as you have indicated, only seems to ever want to create an argument out of nothing, and as a result undermined the findings by belittling the lawers at IPJustice through baseless claims of what they said. I have ended my argument on the matter and am sure that any KJ reading this can come to their own conclusions as to how the legal advice will affect them.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:19 am |
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Lonman: Quite so....
Karyoker: I agree and would be happy to help you scream.
Murrlyn: I don't want to argue, that's just the way I think. I'm a programmer. There are only two possible states true or false. My brain is hard wired like. Because I am currently involved in a project using CDG data, the error in their statement stood out like a sore thumb and I pointed out. That's all.
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Rockrz
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:39 pm |
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timberlea @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:54 am wrote: the International factor...
That shouldn't and doesn't have anything to do with the United States of America.
We make our own laws for our own country...
At least we should be if the repubs and the dems would quit smokin CRACK and start getting something done that's good for our country.
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