Karaoke Forums

A good portion of my master discs are becoming useless.    I have been using copies for many years.   Sitting in the office they are deteriorating.  The foil layer is becoming oxidized and the information is disappearing.   Since the layer is aluminium.     Only if the information layer was gold foil, would it last forever.

oh, but Bigdog... if you're indeed the professional you porport to be, then you can't use copies or a hard drive of your purchased material, as that violates the fair use act, copyright act, and home recording act... because you're commercial.

You can do it for home use, though, so all is not lost.

Well gee then I want my money back that I invested in Enron, Bre-X or any other company that deteriotated and nose dived.  Afterall, it's my money and my investments so I should be able to protect them and my money and not take any risks.

BD if your stored at home original discs are deteriorating, then chances are you have stored them incorrectly, or like a car, they have to be used.  Ever try starting a car that has been sitting for years.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I can't help but laugh at you guys!!  LMAO

Here in my area....I can go to the chartbuster dealer and buy pre-loaded hard drives with the songs I want on them....yes the guy behind the counter is a chartbuster dealer and they are running computer system karaoke and they download straight from chartbuster and they will sell me hard drives from chartbuster, and all I have to do is let them know what songs I want and then pay them the cash!!!

So if someone came up to me asking about legality....I would simply show them my chartbuster Receipt!!!!!  LMAO


Now for those who are downloading from file sharing progs who do not have a sales Receipt from chartbuster or who ever...Then they might have a problem, but what do I know...I am not a KJ... but I can get chartbuster to sell me pre-loaded hard drives.  :D

So if someone is fighting this technology then it sounds to me like they just don't want to go with the flow because they are like American auto makers...they want there product to wear out so you will have to keep buying it over and over and over and over again!!!!  :rotflmao:  That way they make more money!!  :roll:

GREEED I SAY!!!!!!!  LMAO

Okay ....I'll go away now so you guys can continue to fuss about this.  LMAO

Karaoke MFR's are required by copyright law to obtain liscenses from the original artists/lable to record and produce thier karaoke reproductions. Karaoke MFR'S cannot then turn around and authorize someone else to use these liscenses. Anyone else would have to obtain the same liscneses for each song from the original artists/lable. Ask this "Dealer" to produce his mastering and duplication liscneses for each of the songs he's copied and sold to you. Betcha he wont, cant, is unable to. Why? Becuase he does not have any. Why?  Because he's running a bootleg duplication operation. Which most likely means youve been purchasing bootlegged, unliscensed and illegally duplicated/reproduced music in violation of copyright laws. As a "BUSINESS" owner this would worry me GREATLY that I might be using unliscensed, Bootleg source material due to LIABILITY. Just because he gave you a sales reciept does not relieve you of your responsibilities to ensure your not buying bootleg materials. Would be the same situation if you were purchasing 'HOT' merchandise from a pawn shop or someone off the street. A reciept means nothing. All it states is that you bought something. Does absoluetly NOTHING to guarantee if what you bought is a LEGAL PRODUCT. In fact it may work against you........because if they were ever to come after this guy----then they now have a PAPER TRAIL leading to you showing your purchase. And furthermore I certainley wouldnt be trumpeting that information on a pbulic forum like KS since the "Karaoke and Copyright Police" can monitor this site as well as anyone else and anything on these boards is now public record and can be suponead as evidence in a legal proceding.

Just a thought.

As to myself---I dont operate a computer based show and no longer KJ at this time. I have stopped purchaseing Karaoke CD's until further notice until this all is straightend out unless for personal home use.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

The whole sound choice thing is really a scam aimed at the Karaoke Jockeys, hoping to make Mega bucks ofof our misery.

When Computer automation came out for makng disks, Do you think they snubbed the idea, as not applying to karaoke, or did they make the disks by hand??

as far as a digital standard not being set, Chartbuster does sell their tracks as NEO+G format........ google it, they are avalible at many places.

Sound choice again is trying to shaft their cash cow. In the end, they will get what they deserve.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

This is chartbuster doing this....So if anyone is in the wrong it is them not me.

How can chartbuster sell me hard drives loaded with there songs, or let me setup an account and download direct from them...Then turn around and sue me for buying what they are offering???? That don't make sense!!!!  :no:

Sounds to me they are the ones who need to make sure it is legal before they offer something for sale to the public....Because they are one of the karaoke manu

For me to get sued for not being legal when the manu is the one who sold me the product would be like GM selling me a Corvette and then some other agency tried to sue me for buying a product made by Gm.....My point is the manu should be responsible for making sure that what they are selling is legal to be sold to start with and if they are selling something that is not legal then they should be sued instead of me.  To sue me would be pointless!!  LMAO

It is not the place of the consumer to make sure that the manu is getting there legal stuff taken care of.....  LMAO  That's dumb!!!  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

If the Manu is selling illegal karaoke then they should be sued not me.  :yes:

DO you have a link from the Chartbuster download site?  I can't find a download site for Chartbuster, other than CAVS - which isn't CB.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

When Pioneer first came out with the Laser Discs, their machine would only play them and no other media.    You had to buy a machine and disc package from them.   You could not but the first 10 discs without buying their machine.    Then they other disc companies started to take off with the CDG format.   Pioneer's next machine also played CDG.   But they started to convert their Laser Discs in to CDG also.

Back to Sound Choice

They have a big quality problem with the disc's information foil.   It is quickly causing my discs to become useless.     The foil is oxidizing and they are getting holes in them.       They need to address this problem.   Maybe they will become a non issue for my hard drive because I may waste my money on a different manufacture that doesn't have the foil quality problem.


Legal or not in order to preserve my $40,000+ music investment, my collection will be on a hard drive.    Any new discs will immediately go from the jewel case to the computer to be "preserved" also.

I just went and looked at the Chartbuster website and there is no "DOWNLOAD" option on the site. There is an option to download a PDF file for thier Catalog. But nothing for downloading songs from the chartbuster site.  Send the link of this supplier you went to. Id be curious to see it.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Dreamer,
swingcatkurt ,is exactly correct in his statement  (Don't know where he got it). Chartbusters does not have the right to sell the underlying copyright for their karaoke cdg's. They do have the right to sell their version. Which only means that (CB) can't come after you. The publusher or the artist or the Dept. of Justice can. When cavs first came out the legitmate retail stores in our area wouldn't even carry them. It was understood the music wasn't licensed (At least certainly for commercial use). and you could only buy a bootleg hard drive for them. Orignally you had to load them yourself. Then cavs got MM and CB to license them (supposedly) for their versions of karaoke music. I don't think you'll find any of the underlying copyright holders included in that licensing.  I would think any licensing agreement probably Indemnifies CB and states that they are only giving permission for their version. I believe MM has revoked any agreement they had at this point.

Got m8y information from the BMI/ASCP sitew ande that entertainment agency webiste(forgot the name of it). Lays out all the ins and outs of recording, replicating, mastering, copyrights, liscnesing and duplicating of copyrighted music. The reason I was interested in all this was I wanted to use certain instrumental karoake or orginial instumental songs and then record myself using my own original lyric sets and then use something like karaoke creator to put the video words over the cdg tracks to create my own custom made original karaoke blues and swing cdg's to take with me when i went out karaoking. The mechanics of it is pretty simple and straightforward(tho time consuming to sequence the words to music). But the liscnecing to do it legally would be prohibitevly expensive for my purposes. So I havent got around to actually doing it--alghough i have recorded myself with these tracs for my own entertainment at home. And yes I have posted a number of these on SS for people to listen to.........and then delete them after a week or so.
So anyway thats where I went to look for info on song liscnsing and recording.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

(The publishers will not extend licensing for hard-drive products. It is illegal to copy music to a hard-drive for commercial use. The Fair Use Act of 1992 provides for personal use only not commercial.)

The above was taken from the site Matt directed us to on another thread.  So it seems that for commercial use it is not legal, but for personal use it is ok.

And since I was asking to buy it for personal use then thats probabley why they were willing to sell me hard drives.....Because its for personal use only.

Now that makes sense, but I don't understand why they are allowing personal use and not commercial use.  In fact you can now buy karaoke disc from your local walmart stores like I did at christmas, and these disc have included software that when you put the disc in your computer cd rom drive...It will install software so that you can play these karaoke disc on your home computer without having to have any other software.  Also these karaoke disc will play in a Regular home DVD player so you can use them on your home TV.

Now why they are being so touchy about hard drives being used for commercial use I don't have a clue other than the fact that you guys are using karaoke as means to make a living. Looks to me like they are giving you KJ's a hard time just because there has been too many who used disc that were not legal or used files downloaded from file sharing programs.

I feel sorry for you guys....Seems its ok for personal home use but not for you KJ's and thats a real shame because if I were a KJ I would prefer to use hard drives rather than carry around $50,000 worth of disc!!!!

Dreamer,
You are probably never going to have a problem in your home. But the fair use act and the sub-paragragh HRA home recording act only cover audio or sound recordings. A karaoke cdg falls under the movie, copyright laws,because you have to have a separate synchronization copyright from the publisher. So it is technically illegal to make a copy in any format of a karaoke cdg, same as it would be to copy a movie. Will you get caught no. Is it legal NO.

I see your point but check this out.  LMAO

http://www.acekaraoke.com/haceks1000.html


Looks like they are trying to put you guys out of business!!  :shock:


If I were you guys I would be mad too!!!  LMAO


Unify KC-1000 Karaoke System / Video on Demand Server (VOD)  is the latest generation and the only computer based karaoke jukebox that can play all of your CD+G, VCD, DVD, MPEG1, MPEG2, MP3, MP3+G, MPEG4, DivX, MIDI, AVI, WMA and WMV stored on your hard drive, on demand by using either keypad or remote controller!!

All you do is press the song number, and the song will play immediately.  No need of a KJ, no more swapping discs, no need for huge library shelf and no more damaged discs.  Loading songs are very simple thanks to its powerful Karaoke Song Manager.  You can load new songs with the built-in DVD-ROM or download through the Ethernet port.  You just need to assign a song number, title and artist to each song, you are done!  You can add more information such as style, category and language to make song search a lot easier.

As a Video on Demand Server, you can playback all of your DVD movies, or MP3 Songs from the KC-1000.  With the Unify Karaoke System, you can store thousands of full-length VCD (mpeg1), DVD (mpeg2), AVI (mpeg4) or WMV (Windows Media Video) movies or video clips on the player.  All video clips can be playback on demand, at anytime. This is a perfect solution for school, government, hotel, or business. You can pre-program for unlimited numbers of video clip or movies.

Applications:

   *

     Karaoke Lounge: music video on demand
   *

     Club/Restaurant: music on demand
   *

     School: Education video and pre-recorded lectures on demand
   *

     Hotel: Visitor Information and movies on demand
   *

     Business: Product demonstration video on demand

The Unify Karaoke System is available in both Standard or Server edition.


Note: No need of a KJ, no more swapping discs, no need for huge library shelf and no more damaged discs.  

What now Bigdog????  :rotflmao:

Buy your own Bar, then buy this System and you are "Both" Bar owner & KJ!!!

Problem Solved!!!!  

Video----that was the part i forgot to mention about the liscnesing--not only do you have to have individual liscnenses for each AUDIO song---but once yo0u start addding any VIDEO(pics, movies, scrolling words, little bounding balls, etc) you then ALSO need to have liscneces allowing the addition, production and replication of same video in conjunction with the audio!  Too expensive for me!

So I concur about trouble for home vs commercial use. Private HOME users--not likelly to have any trouble with it. For profit, public, commercialo, business applications then there could well be trouble down the road.

Kiosks------hmm that could well end up being what it all evolves into as far as bars go--and they simple hire a 50 a night stiff to operate it. Given that so many MFRs have Public use warnings on thier discs. Some combination of kiosk, stiffs and non-warning discs to make a semi useful collection with bars paying some kind of fee-like a juke-box type thing.  Could see that being imposed on mobile DJ's also---some combo of Non-warning cdg's/laser discs, and liscenced kiosk and alwso paying a liscense/use fee.

Or maybe the MFR's will just give up on enforcing laptop systems. Saw a news article on that which was related to copying and internet sales.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

We need to find a cleaver legal way to use the hard drives in public.    

I will just play for free and then there shouldn't be a problem, right.     I'm having a private party every night.   I rented the bar and if I clean up after, I'll get "my cash" depostit back.    ;)     Everyone can show the invitations you gave them at the door, right.    Private party, invitation only.    You sir with the badge, are not welcome or invited.    :no:   Your name does not appear on the list of invited guests, sorry.    Please leave now, before I call some more cops.


Good point about owning the bar.   You are just having a private party every night.   Like all my drinking/singing friends?

http://www.acekaraoke.com/haceks1000.html

WOW!!!  

Could this be the DEATH KNELL????

Looks like they really ARE looking to kill the KJ!

I guess thats one way to defeat booleggers and format shifting! THATS SOME MESSED UP STUFF.

LORD DO I KNOW SOME BAR OWNERS THAT WOULD JUST JUMP ON A SET UP LIKE THAT!!

Looks like maybe ACE is looking to get out of the MERCHANDISE selling part of it and market this system as a way of eliminating the need to carry all that inventory, or maybe get out of hte biz entirely!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Look at the stupid selection.   How many languages do you sing in???   Not a concern.    :O  :no:

Well BD has a valid point here with "Private Clubs"---it could be done--issue everyone a private MEMBERSHIP card(maybe like private golf courses). Each person would have to be on a membership list. And call ahead to secure thier individual reservation for that eveing to be placed on the advance guest list for the night. Walkins would have to be turned away intially until they pay a PRIVATE MEMBESHIP FEE.

Places like VFW's, Lion's clubs, Eagles are all private membership--I belive BD has some exspereince with them----and you cant get in unless escorted by a paying member and you must sign in on a visitor's list.

It could be done. But would the average bar owner go to all the administrative and legal trouble to try to make it work. Not likely.

This is just getting UGLY!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT