Karaoke Forums

Eric,
I would assume the reason that this is unclear to you is that you run a hard drive system.  I have had the opportunity to go hard drive many times. I have for busines reasons elected to stay LEGAL. I wil be jumping on the hard drive bandwagon as soon as that happens, LEGALLY. I have probably done more shows and been in this business longer than many of you put together(not bragging but for a point of reference)  Since  1985 and average of 40 to 50 shows a week.for awhile closer to 80 a week. By the way I am also a purist as is big dog. and any host are reguired to do the same. The bars like the music in between, the singers don't (at least here). Now back to the question. Here 60% of the shows are now done with HD with 90 to 100 thousand songs on them. I would assume the percentages are the same all over. I really don't personally have anything against so called 1:1 users if you can prove . Still against the law.  Seeing as it's a lot easier to tell the difference  now than later now is better.
You have people like matt( not picking on you matt) who say thier 1:1 . But matt freely admits he used copies before his hard drive and has a back-up of his HD. and if his 1st HD crashes he'll make another back-up. Matt, who is a 1:1 user becomes a 5:1 user. The reason the pblishers haven't released more music for some kind of HD use is they don't need the mess that they have with the music side.

again, this shows you don't know what you're talking about.

ASCAP / Seasac / & BMI all represent the artists, and they get their money thru the venues that allow such performances. Usually, it's bars and clubs... so those that are profitting by the public performances have to pay those fees. IF a venue didn't pay say the BMI licensing fees, then any entertainment that played in that joint couldn't play or perform any material that BMI covers... if they did, they could be sued for just compensation.

Read it again.   Does paying BMI/ASCAP give anyone permission to use copyrighted material??   Who gave them the permission????   GOD or DOG??


Those organizations collect money to distribute that's all..... They have no authority to grant anyone permission to sh** in the corner.

Oppps... I'm so use to not doing it, I forgot to put on some filler music so you could find in writing where they have the right to issue permission to someone to use copyrighted material.


>>>insert filler music here>>> and You can pay ASCAP for it...  LMAO








>>>continue to let it play all night long<<<

you don't need PERMISSION to use copyrighted music. You just have to pay for it!

WRONG WRONG WRONG.      

Why do you think you are not allowed to copy to a hard drive.   You do not have permission to.    You bought a disc and that gave you the right to play it at your house for your personal enjoyment, period.     Jukebox companies but the rights to the songs they use.   The bar owner is paying for the right to use the songs on the jukebox.   They take an avergae of the play times of all the songs and then the money is paid to the artists.   Through BMI/ASCAP.  

Did Bob Dylan/his publishing company send you something?   Did you ask them if you could use his song?    Karaoke companies can not use any song they want.   They have to get permission and pay.   That's why Music Meastro is in trouble.     It's why Sound Choice is coming after you.     Technically you need permission to sing songs out for money.     BMI/ASCAP collect royalty money to pay the artists.    Paying the fee doesn't give anyone permission to sing them, just because they collect money....

BMI/ASCAP are performing rights groups.    The royalty collection police.    They enforce the fee payments and render the checks.  They do not grant permission for anything.    Only the owner/writer/publishers can grant the rights to use a song.

BIG difference.        


If I don't want you to use my material, but you do anyway, I'll sue you for all of the money you made illegally from my song.     It happens everyday with copyright infringement lawsuits, too.   Unauthorized useage or out right stealing parts of a song claiming that you wrote it originally.     Paying BMI/ASCAP means nothing.    Unless you have been given permission to use something.

The place that I just quit KJing at just recently settled up with BMI/Ascap for a law suit for not paying liscencing fees over the years. SO those lawsuits are for real and actualy occuring.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

So where Im confused is does bmI/ASCAP cover kareoke tracs or not or just bands and recorded DJ music or jukeboxes.  And as I understrand it the bands also have to keep a set list and pay some kind of minimal perfromance fee per song or is that incorrect. And if it is correct, then would they also demand the kj's keep a song list as they are operating psuedo-perfromances each time a "live singer" gets up to "perform" a copyrighted song. It all is quite confusing.!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

They are taking bars to court for non payment of the royalty money.   Not because someone used something without permission.  All they want to see is the money.    They are not looking for permission slips.

BMI/ASCAP use a formula to figure out how many avergae times a song is played.  

Having a bands costs the bars the most in fees.


A DJ is next and then karaoke is actually the cheapest fee.


But it is all based on an average play list.


Search BMI in google and find the fee application chart.   It's based on bar occupancy.

Just like when bars have a pay-per-view cable/satellite event.  It's based on the occupancy.


Every time a song is played in a commercial or in a TV program, they have to pay.   Nothing is free.    The writer of that song gets a few pennies for every time it's played.   That is way hit songs make big bucks.    They sell millions of copies and the radio stations pay every time it's played.   The longer your song is on the charts the more it's worth.   I would love to write a hit song.....  LMAO

its the karaoke MANUFACTURERS that are against you copying...

when you play in a venue, no matter what you play, as long as you PAY, they could care less what FORMAT it is in.

You're talking two different animals b.d.

"I would love to write a hit song....."


Then why dont u sit your whining azz down and do so???????

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

It still boils down to permission.   Paying BMI/ASCAP doesn't get you permission.   They do not have the right to grant permission to anyone for anything.     They demand you pay the royalties, that's it.


If a bar has bands, DJs and karaoke they pay for all 3.   Based on an average of the songs they think they played.     They have no idea what was played.   They just know songs were played.   For this you pay.     It has absolutely nothing to do with permission.

No time to write anymore.   Too busy being the World's Best KJ....It's killing me....

Actually the artists pay into the publishers a certain fee to make sure they get paid so YES they have the authority to collect the money!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Actually, karaoke costs MORE to a bar than JUSt a dj because of the sync rights - being the rights to play the words as well as the music1

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Phxkj,

I am not a KJ (yet), but I'm putting together what I will need when I do go out and offer my services, which will be soon.

The subject of HD shows has generated ongoing discussion in this forum both because of its importance and the constantly changing environment that exists. It is my opinion, and that of many others on this forum, that if you're 1to1 the cdg manufacturers shouldn't be concerned.

Two CDG manufacturers, however, now want to make HD's an issue. Ironically, one of which has been sued regarding copyright infringement. I suggested in a previous post that we stop buying and playing products from those two companies.  Some herein are now starting to agree with that thinking.  

BD asked, in one of the first threads I participated in, who to call regarding "illegal" HD shows. Many herein dismissed the significance of such shows and chastised BD for worrying about his competition.  Many suggested that HD shows offering tens of thousands of songs were inconsequential because:  such shows had 1000's of dups; such shows had poor quality recordings; such shows typically have terrible sound systems; it's the KJ that makes the show, not the number of songs; etc.

Today, I believe, more of us ARE concerned about the illegal rigs.  So, what do we want to do about the illegal shows we know of?   Is this truly a problem for just copyright holders and licensees?

And since there has been no test case, we don't know that all HD shows will be deemed illegal, by definition, in the final analysis! And as many herein have suggested, the manufacturer will have to show a loss to collect any damages.  
At best, in my opinion, they might be successful in putting a stop to HD's, but I don't really believe even that will happen!

Don't be ridiculous.

If they represent the musicians and songwriters (which they do), and they collect money on their behalf (which they do), implicitly anyone they represent is granting permission.

It would a really nice business if you could collect money for something you have
no rights to, but that is not what is happening.

Eric,
There have been a number of cases where SC  has put a KJ out of business, it's never gone to court, I would assume because the attorney for the Kj told him it would be foolish, Also SC has never looked for a monetary compensation just for the KJ to go out of business. Ascap/Bmi have taken many bars to court over the Public Performance rights and won every time. Also let's be very clear the state and federal laws while a little gray in the home use area are very clear in the commercial use  and it is the federal laws that call for up to $250,000 and up to 6 months in jail per  occurence, not Stellar or SC.
. Also you say only 2 companies SC and Stellar are doing this, they are just about the only 2 left that are in business, DK,MM, Out of business the others are either borderline legal or not legal themselves, at least for the most part. I have talked to both Stellar and SC and they would welcome a format that would be legal for hard drive or download. at this time they say there is no publisher or artist that will give that permission, with the exception of a few hundred songs,as a test market that have DRM encoding. Until their is a way for them to license the music through the publishers, the "legal" manufactures hands are tied.

Phxkj

A lot of this is new to me, but I know of no evidence that ASCAP and BMI are concerned about the use of hard drives.

In my opinion, Chartbusters, Zoom, Pocket Songs, among others are legal and viable alternatives to SC and Stellar.  And is Stellar 100% legal?

Lastly, how does SC put a KJ out of business?
There is nothing illegal about running a karoake show; there may be issues of legality when one uses an SC product.  That's why I suggested we not use their products!  If they approached me, assuming they had a real issue with me, I would stop using their products.

If I had done something that might be questionable and they really pushed me to the wall, I'd turn the business over to a different corporation in my wife's name only.

A Cease and Desist Letter usually does the trick, unless the KJ wants to spend a lot of money on a court case.

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