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  COPYING is COPYING no matter how you try and justify it. Try telling this to a judge or laywer and they'll laugh in your face dude. On a hard drive (which I use) they are trying to tell me that it will now be considered illegal for me even if my songs are on a 1 to 1 basis (1disk for 1 disk on hard drive) So the problem here is not  what constitutes a format shift, the problem is what is Sound Choice trying to gain out of this. Remember when Sound Choice decided to go after the Hack copiers and downloaders then found out it was too costly. So now they are trying to go after their own respectable customers and screw us. This is very petty of them and you know what, they will crawl back on their heels agian and probably do nothing about anything and just say it would be too expensive agian. So for me I've decided to not buy anymore Sound Choice disks and will stick with the other companies who make it easier on us hard drive professionals. MY 2 Cents!!!!!!!!!

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ROBDOG *WOOF WOOF*

Don't misconstrue what I am saying. I am not advocating illegal duplication and distribution. I am simply stating that for it to be a format SHIFT there must be a SHIFT! A wav. file isn't a shift, it is the same. If their arguement is based on a shift they are dead in the water. This may not matter because when the whole regular music duplication fight was all the rage the defense arguement was opposite. It was argued that an mp3 was of lesser quality much like a cassette is so an mp3 isn't a dupe. It didn't hold much ground apparently (remember napster). I personally have my music on 2 laptops. I own all the music and the second laptop is an older one I take to shows with me and intend to use as a backup to my new one in the case I have some sort of tech problem. I think carrying a player and the disc and all the bulk associated with them defeats the purpose, at least my main purpose (not to mention the added functionality that the software provides) of using a computer anyway. Convienence,Convienence,Convienence!!! My having a 2:1 ratio may upset you but I don't use them at two different venues at the same time. One is simply a backup to my main laptop. I believe it makes perfectly logical sense. By the way, i quit buying SC a long time ago. Too expensive and too many duplicate songs on different disc. I have found that stardisc have a good sound and a good value.

A shift definition.

shift  Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[shift] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1. to put (something) aside and replace it by another or others; change or exchange: to shift friends; to shift ideas.  
2. to transfer from one place, position, person, etc., to another: to shift the blame onto someone else.

Transferring a cdg to hard drive is SHIFTING.  Moving (actually copying) contents from one media source to another media source.

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Ah that's nothing more than a couple of 300 (or bigger) gb hard drives.  These cost less now than the 120 gb hard drive I bought 2 years ago.

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2. to transfer from one place, position, person, etc., to another:

This isn't happening at all unlss you are somehow erasing the data on the original cd at the same time and like I've stated if it is a wav. file the format doesn't change either.

A wav. file is a duplicate not a shift of anything and a mp3 file is neither a duplicate(because a mp3 is much lesser quality) or shift (because the original is still in its original place).

You're right it isn't actually 'shifting' it's downright copying which is against the law for commercial use as the law stands at this time.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

That is my point. If they are arguing that "format shifting" is illegal because it is "copying" of their copyrighted material it can easily be proven in court that they aren't one and the same. Their case falls apart and any logical jury would have to agree.

How about returning the threat to the brainless  idiots who just want to screw every KJ on the planet!   How many personal injury suits do you guys think you could come up with in regards to the back strain/injuries suffered from having to lug all those heavy cases of CDGs around to every venue, instead of just a single laptop!

oh gimmie a break!

While I DO agree that carrying in a computer is much easier on the back, a LAWSUIT for INJURIES incured while bringing them into and out of a venue?

My SPEAKERS weigh much more than any of my cdgs, in a carrying case or not. My road case for my amp and 2nd player...

DOUBLE Sheesh!

And to address the format shifting, it's UNAUTHORIZED, therefore ILLEGAL. You can try to justify it any way you want. I agree that in my personal opinion a judge or jury would look at the copying of what you own on a 1:1 ratio (no MATTER the FORMAT) as understandable and no loss to the manus...

But they DO have a ground to stand on in that for the commercial entities out there, it's just not allowed to deviate from their purchased material.

I can justify what I do or what you do all I want... doesn't change the LAWS as they're stated!

How about returning the threat to the brainless  idiots who just want to screw every KJ on the planet!   How many personal injury suits do you guys think you could come up with in regards to the back strain/injuries suffered from having to lug all those heavy cases of CDGs around to every venue, instead of just a single laptop!


Just when a point is made, or common ground(understanding) is reached/approached this kind of irrational(aka dumba$$) comment is made!!!

Why are they doing this? Perhaps you all need to pretend you are Sound Choice or Stellar Records, etc and try and think how this makes financial sense and what they are really trying to accomplish?

One thought I had is that if the music they have really isn't licensed by the original artists for hard drive and other uses then are are liable to law suit themselves if they don't at least appear vigilant at trying to protect the rights of those authors.

Another thought is perhaps they are trying to put the scare out there so that all the multiriggers, etc will buy a legit copy for each illegal one they currently have. That would probably add up to a lot of cash.

Also with penalties stated of potentially $250,000 per occurance of transgression and 6 mos jail time every time and illegal track is played that is lucrative amounts of money. If they can really go after a KJ (legit or not) and get any of this type of money then that alone would pay tons of legal fees. If they do a couple test balloon cases and establish legal precedent then it will become much cheaper for them and easier / quicker to prosecute. Of course, it will probably destroy their industry too. Chances are they do not want to really do that, and certainly they are aware of the backlash potential. So what do they really hope to accomplish?

On another note from the other side of this as a singer I will tell you that I've tried many of the other types of disks and most of them simply suck in quality and near reproduction of original artists except for Sound Choice. I have been burned SO many times attempting to sing other versions I simply won't anymore unless I know that it is good quality beforehand. Almost all the disks I own are Sound Choice. I have others and there are exceptions but generally I have found it is the rule. I remember a month ago I got up to sing a song thinking it was Sound Choice, but it wasn't. I was already on stage. It started playing and it was almost completely unrecognizable - some with kazoos playing. I refused to sing it, and said I would pass. The KJ looked for another version. It was a little better, and I went ahead and sang it, but it just sucked and I ended up sounding bad. He later found his SC version. Oh, well. My point is...don't think it is so easy to blow SC off.

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The Truth Is Out There

the only thing I've heard of, and know personally, is that the bars are saying "forget (i.e. PHUCK) Karaoke... IF it's going to bring me this much shiyate!"

Coming down hard on the venues will only cause PAIN, NOT results.

But what does SC really care? THey've given up on the kj market, and have basically said so themselves. The home market is MUCH more plentiful!

Cause bar owners what?.  Its not that hard  for an owner to see that you use original discs, unless he or she is blind.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Gentlemen,
Any bar owner that discontinues karaoke over this is either not a fan of karaoke or isn't making any money. I know most of you on these sites don't agree, but this is the best thing that could happen to this business.  If 30% of the bars in your area stop doing karaoke, those singers will go to places that have it. More business
( higher pay). If  60% of the karaoke Co. are removed, more places for you to work.
For years you people have known this was coming and you've elected to convert to hard drives, As it sits today, that was a BAD business decision. This is a business and if you didn't figure in the cost of replacing disc's repairs and the rest of the costs that go on, you shouldn't be in business. For those of you that have your original cdg's This is not much more than an inconvenience. With potential for you to double your income. Hard drives are coming , but not until the publishing co. will allow it. Matt knows better than to blame SC and Stellar for this these are federal copyright laws. And there is a good chance that they may be the only 2 companies are are at least trying to stay legal themselves. While CB music may be legal their agreement to sell their music (more than likely violates the underlying copyrights) for hard drive use( at least from everything I can read on the matter). The way you guys talk SC and STELLAR are the BAD GUYS. They've sent a warning, something they didn't have to do, What you and the bars do are what you decide. I will tell you that in PHX. there have been numerous cease and desist leters sent to bars and KJ's. in the last few weeks.

What did they say to stop in the letters.   Karaoke, hard drive karaoke?

Hopefully they were trying to stop big dogs with little minds.....

And if I am correct, he uses a computer system as well, but has no website.....

Could the woof woof be scared?

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

No computer yet...  :O

No web site either....  

Way too much "100% pure karaoke only" work to waste my time on a web site that I don't need.    I have to turn work away.  That is the scary part.     I might double book someone.  LMAO

This happens when you don't waste singing time.   You become very popular and in high demand.    :dancin:  :dancin:  

Time wasting Hacks go out of business at my feet.


It's not easy being a leader of quality 100% pure, non stop, continuous professional karaoke.    But somebody has to do it....  :worship:

Phxkj

I'm having a hard time understanding your point, especially the one about the virtues of what SC and Stellar are doing.  If you don't like computerized systems, don't set one up.  Why should I avoid such a system?

Tim, there are bars that are shutting down using karaoke as entertainment. Not a great many, but at least two have reported to this "Karaoke Insider" magazine that they'll stop using karaoke in any form as long as the threats are coming.

They don't HAVE to do anything they don't want. When they contract out a band, do they ask them if they're using computers and illegal song samples? Some tech savy bands DO use them, you know! Why should a venue be TOLD to hire ONLY those that use discs.

Again, as we've gone over this round and round, I buy MY discs, too. Or I did, when I was still in the business. How am I hurting the karaoke manufacturer's business? What do you say to someone like Lonnie that has all his cdgs with him yet wants to play off the computer to protect his investment?

It would be different if there was a precident set forth from the courts about a successful suing of a computer jock that only had a 1:1 ratio... they're sending out a scare tactic that's so far untried in court.

Bands and DJs will be facing the same thing.   Do they have the required permission to use the material they use????    I don't think so.    I quite sure that not every song writer has given permission for the songs to be replayed in public.    If they didn't give it to the karaoke companies, why would they give it to a band?    So live entertainment is what's in jeapardy, not just karaoke.