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Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
http://karaokescene.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16247		 Page 3 of 6
Author:  timberlea [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Great article but the proff will be in the pudding if they defend a host pro bono.
Author:  karyoker [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
This would not be a routine arrest based upon heresay or suspicion. A copyright arrest would be proceeded by months of investigation and many thousand dollars spent.

This is not a simple civil matter that anyone can walk up and question your legality. If so it would have to be a federal official charged with copyright enforcement.

link
Author:  ripman8 [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
mckyj57 @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:43 pm wrote:
Well if you are a format-shifting computer user, and happen to be in the first few hundred that get popped before the furor starts, then that's unlucky. Until then, I wouldn't worry much.

And looks like the OP has succeeded in getting this topic stirred up with a nothing first post. He do hate computers.


What is format shifting?
Author:  Lone Wolf [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Me thinks some people have been in the cold weather too long and need summer to come quickly :lol:

If I had illegal material on my external hard drive and thought that some guy was going to take it so they could file suit against me somehow that hard drive would go flying across the room and end up in a million pieces and I keep no music on my computer so they would find very little. Yea yea alright they could take the disc out and see if there was illegal music on it but I'm sure a good Lawyer would say "Oh you put that disc in a different computer hmmm sounds like you may have tampered with evidence to me"

I think that there are a lot of scare tactics going on and the only way you should be worried is if you are blatantly breaking the law. If you think that I'm going to carry hundreds of discs around with me just to prove I have them your nuts :shock:

If they want to see them they can get a warrant to come to my house or make me produce them. I really don't think that some dude is going to stop your show so he can look through all your discs (if you carry them with you) to see whats legal and whats not and as Joe put it coping is legal as long as you own the original disc.

Lone Wolf
Author:  ripman8 [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
mckyj57 @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:43 pm wrote:
Well if you are a format-shifting computer user, and happen to be in the first few hundred that get popped before the furor starts, then that's unlucky. Until then, I wouldn't worry much.

And looks like the OP has succeeded in getting this topic stirred up with a nothing first post. He do hate computers.


Ok, after reading kk's link, I now know what the shift is. It is changing the format of the song from disk to digital.
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
ripman8 @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:27 pm wrote:
mckyj57 @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:43 pm wrote:
Well if you are a format-shifting computer user, and happen to be in the first few hundred that get popped before the furor starts, then that's unlucky. Until then, I wouldn't worry much.

And looks like the OP has succeeded in getting this topic stirred up with a nothing first post. He do hate computers.


What is format shifting?


Ripping your discs to & using a computer format instead of the actual disc.
Author:  supercharged [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Im shocked that it never seems to come up that MOST karaoke is illegal anyways. as i understand it MANY manus have gone without paying all or some of the fees they owed. oooh but im sure none of us have any of those disks do we?
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
supercharged @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:50 am wrote:
Im shocked that it never seems to come up that MOST karaoke is illegal anyways. as i understand it MANY manus have gone without paying all or some of the fees they owed. oooh but im sure none of us have any of those disks do we?


Doesn't matter on our end, as long as the clubs are paying the ASCAP/BMI fees, doesn't matter that the manus didn't properly license their end.
Author:  diafel [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
supercharged @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:50 am wrote:
Im shocked that it never seems to come up that MOST karaoke is illegal anyways. as i understand it MANY manus have gone without paying all or some of the fees they owed. oooh but im sure none of us have any of those disks do we?

Doesn't matter. We bought the discs legally and in good faith. And yes, that is why Panorama is out of business. Didn't pay their fees.
I find it funny that everyone is so hard on the pirates that are hosts but almost nothing is mentioned about manus like Panorama.
They blame the host pirates for the demise of legitimate karaoke manus, but say nothing about the manu pirates and thier MAJOR contribution to the problem.
Could it be that a manu like Panorama not paying their fees might be unfair competition to a legitimate manu like Sound Choice, who pays their fees?
Something to think about.
Author:  c. staley [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Lonman @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:09 pm wrote:
supercharged @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:50 am wrote:
Im shocked that it never seems to come up that MOST karaoke is illegal anyways. as i understand it MANY manus have gone without paying all or some of the fees they owed. oooh but im sure none of us have any of those disks do we?


Doesn't matter on our end, as long as the clubs are paying the ASCAP/BMI fees, doesn't matter that the manus didn't properly license their end.


Would these be the same manufacturers that want everyone to join the KIAA.org and make sure that you're completely legal... but they don't have to be?

Would it be the same ones that want you to agree to sign away your rights and be subject to surprise "inspections" and agree to whatever "redress" they decide at the time?

Would this be the same manufacturers that don't have to prove anything, ever including what they produce to sell to you is legal????

My, my. What a tangled web we weave....
Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Single independent KJ's neednt worry about being popped. They are TOO SMALL POTATOES and they are the very market that the MFR's sell to.

Its the large scale multi-riggers and the illegal hardrive reproducers/sellers that have been busted with court judegments and senteces handed out.

A single KJ with a lappy or box is not a large enough target to waste the resources neccessary to prosecute.

They need not worry.

In addition the only harrassment/local legal action are aginst those venues not paying thier monthly ascap/bmi liscensing fees. And those they either cease having music entertainment or settle and make a payment schedule for thier liscenses.
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
c. staley @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:30 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:09 pm wrote:
supercharged @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:50 am wrote:
Im shocked that it never seems to come up that MOST karaoke is illegal anyways. as i understand it MANY manus have gone without paying all or some of the fees they owed. oooh but im sure none of us have any of those disks do we?


Doesn't matter on our end, as long as the clubs are paying the ASCAP/BMI fees, doesn't matter that the manus didn't properly license their end.


Would these be the same manufacturers that want everyone to join the KIAA.org and make sure that you're completely legal... but they don't have to be?

Would it be the same ones that want you to agree to sign away your rights and be subject to surprise "inspections" and agree to whatever "redress" they decide at the time?

Would this be the same manufacturers that don't have to prove anything, ever including what they produce to sell to you is legal????

My, my. What a tangled web we weave....


I don't know anything about that. If I own an original disc, I am fine as long as the club is paying their publishing fees.
Author:  c. staley [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Lonman said:
Quote:
I don't know anything about that. If I own an original disc, I am fine as long as the club is paying their publishing fees.


Are you suggesting that it doesn't matter if you're purchasing and using pirated material in your show long as the club is paying ASCAP, BMI and SEASAC?

You're talking apples and oranges Lonnie... You're talking about ASCAP (performance fees) and the subject is pirates and copyrights.

Just because a disc is purchased "at a store" and it's pressed, doesn't make it "legal"
does it? Apparently, that's exactly the kind of thinking that this KIAA wants you to believe...that you should not question a pressed disc... even if it is produced illegally.

SGB and Top Tunes were both pressed, as were All Hits, Helluva Disc, Mega Hits, Dangerous and so on.. yet none of those were "properly licensed." If you think that all of SC's tracks were licensed when they were produced and sold, you're fooling yourself.

The idea that a manufacturer wants to threaten KJ's if they "pirate the already pirated material" is a joke. And from the KJ's point of view it's like saying "Of course it's legal... I have a receipt from the thief."
Author:  BruceFan4Life [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
BarryKaraoke @ March 25th 2009, 1:28 pm wrote:
jamkaraoke @ Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:46 pm wrote:
SIMPLE - take out the LEAD VOCAL TRACK and add some synchronized lyrics -- I mean HOW HARD COULD IT BE ALREADY. Wouldn't you rather pay $2-3 per song if it was the original band??
Goodbye SOUNDCHOICE !!!


One of my favorite geeky underground artists, Jonathan Coulton, does this very thing. You can buy karaoke versions of almost all his songs on his website, complete with graphics. It's a brilliant idea actually...every artist could do it!

Off topic: Speaking of which...if you guys don't have Coulton's version of Baby Got Back, you should. It's the same lyrics, but done in an "Adult Contemporary" style. Very funny to sing. LINK


You talked me into it, Barry. I purchased Jonathan Coulton's karaoke version of baby Got Back and I recorded it and posted it on the singers showcase. LOL First of May will be my next song to record but I don't know if it will be allowed to stay on the Singers Showcase for very long, considering some of the language. Not even sure if I'll get away with singing it at a karaoke bar. ;c)
Author:  ericlater [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
The most interesting thing to me is how quickly Obama reacted, as suggested by one poster, to the needs of some big financial supporters. It's as if there's nothing else "on his plate", right?

Where this development will lead is subject to conjecture and it was considerate of JoeC to alert this forum of this newest development.

And at least we know Joe has good intentions, unlike that guy from Phoenix who tried to INTIMIDATE folks with misleading information a few years back about local venues becoming the target of law enforcement regarding copyright infringement

BTW is there any new info regarding Phoenix in regard to that "crackdown" which was going to be so ominous? Was any KJ's equipment ever seized in Phoenix?

As to seizures of Kiddie Porn, illicit drugs and the like KJ's ARE NOT DISPLAYING either. And since what KJ's and DJ's do is not inherently illegal, what would constitute "probable cause" when seizing their business assets? How would law enforcement know, in fact, that the seized equipment SHOULD be suspect? And does anyone really think that a local law enforcement officer would confiscate equipment, on their own (without directions from above)? And if directed from above, would such directions come down without a great deal of investigation beforehand and (likely) a search warrant?

And, Diafel, your concern about how your posts were read is well founded! There are posters who do not read posts in their entirety and/or who might not easily comprehend differing points of view and/or subtleties contained in a previous post. So, Diafel, you might soon be accused of being thick-headed by the very person who you feel missed your well-stated ideas!
Author:  Bazza [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
BruceFan4Life @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:51 am wrote:
You talked me into it, Barry. I purchased Jonathan Coulton's karaoke version of baby Got Back and I recorded it and posted it on the singers showcase. LOL First of May will be my next song to record but I don't know if it will be allowed to stay on the Singers Showcase for very long, considering some of the language. Not even sure if I'll get away with singing it at a karaoke bar. ;c)


LOL. I hear ya. I recently did a private 30th birthday party and the VERY drunk crowd kept yelling for me to sing one, so I said "OK...one for the lovers" and did First of May. At first they were like, "What the heck is this this mellow song?"...until the chorus. They were rollin' on the floor! :P
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Thanks for the kind words, Eric. You hit it on the head- I was just passing on info, and have no opinion or idea what will come of it. I only HOPE it thins out pirate competitors, but we can only wait and see....
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
c. staley @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:19 pm wrote:
Lonman said:
Quote:
I don't know anything about that. If I own an original disc, I am fine as long as the club is paying their publishing fees.


Are you suggesting that it doesn't matter if you're purchasing and using pirated material in your show long as the club is paying ASCAP, BMI and SEASAC?

You're talking apples and oranges Lonnie... You're talking about ASCAP (performance fees) and the subject is pirates and copyrights.

Because I bought an original disc from a legitimate source, does not make me a pirate even if it wasn't made with proper licesning - that will fall on the manu, not the kj. If I bought it, it is fine to use in my show if the publishing fees are being paid - no different than cover bands playing material, they don't have to get any licensing to play the material, the clubs need to pay for the material being played.

Quote:
Just because a disc is purchased "at a store" and it's pressed, doesn't make it "legal"
does it? Apparently, that's exactly the kind of thinking that this KIAA wants you to believe...that you should not question a pressed disc... even if it is produced illegally.

I don't know anything about the kiaa, but if I bought it - original pressed disc from a legitimate outlet, then I can play it - regardless of which manu made it - legit or not, it will ultimately fall onto them as far as legalities. It's when I am creating discs from music, then I am breaking the copyright law. Publishing laws are different. I am just playing music, not creating it.
If that were the case, I would need to get rid of 75% of my library since much of the licensing to redistribute is no longer valid. But to play the music is a licensed club is not a problem.

Quote:
SGB and Top Tunes were both pressed, as were All Hits, Helluva Disc, Mega Hits, Dangerous and so on.. yet none of those were "properly licensed." If you think that all of SC's tracks were licensed when they were produced and sold, you're fooling yourself.

Never denied that they were all licesned. I use SC 8125 nightly. But the legalities are not on my regarding those discs.
Author:  c. staley [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
Lonman said:
Quote:
I don't know anything about the kiaa, but if I bought it - original pressed disc from a legitimate outlet, then I can play it - regardless of which manu made it - legit or not, it will ultimately fall onto them as far as legalities. It's when I am creating discs from music, then I am breaking the copyright law. Publishing laws are different. I am just playing music, not creating it.


So what you're saying is that you really don't care if any music is illegally produced, illegally reproduced, illegally pressed on a disc as long as it's sold through "a legitimate outlet" then it somehow is "washed clean" of any illegalities and it's perfectly legal for you to use it?

Granted ASCAP/BMI/SEASAC really don't give a squat where you got the music from or how or who created the recording, that's not what they are about anyway.

And yes, any "redistribution license" ran out years ago on many of the older discs you have, so the manufacturer can no longer distribute the tracks in question (press & sell more discs), which has nothing to do with you being able to play them.

Quote:
no different than cover bands playing material, they don't have to get any licensing to play the material, the clubs need to pay for the material being played.

You're right: Cover bands don't have to get a license to play the material, they are creating the material on the spot, they are not mass producing it and reselling it. In your case with illegally produced tracks, you're purchasing the material that by all "legal means" shouldn't have been available for you to purchase in the first place.

And, you're simply taking the position that since you bought it from a store, it's now perfectly legal for you play right?
("I understand officer that the car was reported stolen... but I bought it from a store and that makes in "un-stolen" and now it's mine.")

Now you have to simply determine what constitutes a "legitimate outlet." Would purchasing from ProSing or Karaoke.com be considered legitimate although they also sold Dangerous, SGB, Top Tunes and a host of other illegally produced discs?

Maybe I should just purchase everything I want from our local "Disc Jockey Supply" store who regularly burn all these brands including original DK, Music Maestro, All hits, Top Tunes etc. and declare them "legal." I could show a receipt if you like.... does this make the redistribution of these expired licenses somehow legal again?

If I use your logic, I shouldn't have to worry about any tracks if I got them this way, I have a receipt from a store and whether they burn them or press them, it shouldn't matter.
Author:  BruceFan4Life [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer Based Host? Better Read This....
BarryKaraoke @ March 30th 2009, 9:54 am wrote:
BruceFan4Life @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:51 am wrote:
You talked me into it, Barry. I purchased Jonathan Coulton's karaoke version of baby Got Back and I recorded it and posted it on the singers showcase. LOL First of May will be my next song to record but I don't know if it will be allowed to stay on the Singers Showcase for very long, considering some of the language. Not even sure if I'll get away with singing it at a karaoke bar. ;c)


LOL. I hear ya. I recently did a private 30th birthday party and the VERY drunk crowd kept yelling for me to sing one, so I said "OK...one for the lovers" and did First of May. At first they were like, "What the heck is this this mellow song?"...until the chorus. They were rollin' on the floor! :P


I'll be posting First of May on the Singer's Showcase later today, Barry. Keep an eye out.
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